How did God exist, what is his purpose, and how is it evident? I imagine an entity, evolving through unlimited time, collecting knowledge of perfection, could be God. God, knowing what can destroy perfection: greed, lust, selfishness, dishonesty, those things that keep a soul from wisdom and peace, could create a world where we could choose to strive towards perfection with proper instructions, or continue to fail the tests set before us. How else could he give us a gift of great knowledge when it takes going through experience to gain a complete soul by ourselves. We couldn't claim our soul as our own, or our accomplishments, if we weren't presented with these tests to become our own selves. We could be given a chance to gain this knowledge during a life time since we cannot do the impossible, learning this through whatever God went through to learn this, as we are not God. It is impossible to achieve this since we are not God,so God went further in showing us perfection by giving a son to us. We can, IF WE CHOOSE, ask for help. Despite pain,he gave his son to us because it was for the greater good,to make up for what we cannot achieve. How would this occur without a God? I see no other logical answer to how we learn, through trial and error and natural consequences, how to make a good soul. I don't see any random explanation for this. There seems to be a methodological plan placed in the world, at all times even, that leads us toward closer perfection. If all were random, how is the world set up to test our ability to be enlightened humans? I cannot explain this without God. Thinking about how we are set up right in the middle of everything. A God Equation- or.........Proof of God, how could this be random? We are precisely tuned creatures: God gave us legs just short enough to reach down to pick flowers, and just long enough to also pick fruit from trees. We move at a speed set fast enough to feel exhilaration, and set slow enough to enjoy the scenery. Our eyes are set to see the beautiful stars and shapes in the sky, all without overwhelming us with seeing how infinite it is. Our eyes are set to see textures, patterns, and color, without burdening us with seeing the molecular activity beneath it all. Our ears are set at a volume to hear birds, music, and ocean waves clearly, yet set to hear sounds separately like an orchestra. Our temperatures are set to feel the warmth of baths and sunshine without burning, and also the coolness of streams and snowflakes without freezing. Our touch is set to feel sensitive to a kiss, yet set strong enough to withstand the elements. We are able to smell delicious foods, yet our sense of smell ,fortunately,is set to limits also. We taste flavor in the foods we are blessed with, and given water when we want a break from flavor. Our minds are set to be strong enough to make war, yet gentle enough to offer peace and comfort. Our minds are set with the capacity to realize this all, and the free will to do with it what we like. Hope- My Grandma died recently and I was in great pain and thought about how intensely painful my feelings were and how much I loved her. I thought, "I can say for certain, I love and will always love my Grandma and nothing will change that, not the end of the world or anything. And I wondered where does that love energy go? According to quantum physics, energy is not created, nor is it destroyed, it just changes. Does it just endlessly fly through the universe? Then I thought, If there was a bunch of love flying around the universe, maybe that is what evolved into God? The universe has been here an inconceivably long time, why do we have a hard time believing that a being more enlightened than us, could've evolved? We only use 10% of our minds so what if something has evolved to use it all? Which led me to question why would such a being allow pain and suffering: Purpose of pain on earth? God is love. Love and God evolved into one. God created us to also experience and give love ,but only if we want to, or choose to,because love cannot be forced, this contradicts what love is. True love evolves. If God saved us from pain, how would we ever know our true selves in the face of difficulty? How we become our SELFS if God saved us from pain? Wouldn't we be puppets, stifled of growth? Why must God only allow people, who choose him, into heaven? Because heaven is love, pure honest and true. Sin, on the other hand is like a cancer or a stone that has been thrown into a pond that creates endless ripples. Sin would contaminate heaven. We must go through pain and suffering on earth because love isn't a thing. Love is created. Love becomes true when it is tested through trials, and survives, becoming even stronger and with commitment. It doesn't need to be perfect, Jesus became the human element that covered our imperfections, but it is genuine. This love is the energy we put out on earth, it doesn't die or change and it is what I think fills heaven. Why faith? Believing is the only way to faith...-not knowing. Faith is important because we rely on our character and spirit to make decisions rather than the outcome of our choices. This is the only way to get to know and determine your own soul. It is the closest we can come to who we truthfully are. Why do we have to pick "Jesus"? I always hear people say "Why would a God make us choose Jesus, what's wrong with Buddha or Allah? I mean that would be a dumb reason not to get into heaven." This question/statement bothered me because I could see the logic. After a while I realized this: If Jesus is real like the bible says, and God truly gave him to the world to help us figure things out,then he is real and the other gods are false. Why would God allow us to believe in something false? Why would he say "close enough"? The reason God sent Jesus and requires our belief, is because the holy spirit is necessary to be transformed and actually begin a spiritual life (the point being we can't do it on our own, we are not as evolved as God, hence we accept God's help) If you believe in the holy spirit, you believe in Jesus as it comes from the same source, the bible. If the bible is true, than any other God is false and won't give us spirituality, why would we want God to accept us worshiping something that isn't real and won't give us spiritual help? ...Choosing only Jesus to get to Heaven is like this. There are a few cars parked in a parking lot leading to the road to heaven. A Buddha, a Jesus, an Allah. a man says "Which car can get me to heaven?" another says "The only one with a working engine is the Jesus, but you can pick any of them." The other replies..."Why would I pick one if the engine doesn't work?" The guys says..."Because they are all cars just the same." That is the same logic used when asked "Why do we have to choose Jesus?" Well you have the choice to choose any vehicle really, but probably best to choose the one that does the job. Consequences seem spiritual in nature as opposed to random. Mother Nature and punishment. Drinking or drugs.............natural consequence=death, insanity, broken homes. premarital sex.................sexual disease, broken homes, single parents greed................war, corruption,depression. homosexuality..............aids gluttony...................obesity, high blood pressure Seems uncanny that these things occur? When we love............we are fulfilled When we give............we are fulfilled If there weren't a god, wouldn't it make sense that we could all be, drug addicted, alcoholic, sex crazed, over eating, happy human beings? How can the world, if random, give us natural consequences to our sins? Some say we named them sins after we discovered they brought us pain. But there is objective truth to what makes a human a "good" human, and I am supposed to believe it is random nature that rewards and punishes us according to following those spiritual truths? Doesn't seem random. Here's why... Certain human behaviors tend to lead to character deficits which would be considered more spiritual, not something that would be a part of natural selection as far as I know, in other words, should not logically effect one's chances of survival. For example, if one eats too much sugar, we are overindulging in pleasure which seems to demonstrate selfishness, and "coincidentally"rots our teeth and causes obesity . If we eat too many vegetables, not usually on one's most pleasurable list, we become healthier- a positive consequence. If we drink too much alcohol or drugs, avoiding our problems and lessening our character, we become sick. This doesn't occur when we overindulge in water or juice- which clearly doesn't alter one's character. If we have too much sex where we don't hold sex as a sacred act, thus doing it for selfish physical reasons, we incur disease, unwanted pregnancy, destroyed relationships. if we love money too much, thus becoming greedy, another character flaw, we often separate ourselves from people we love. These seem to take away from one's character and have consequences. Yes, some have physical consequences but again "coincidentally" also affect our character as human beings. When we indulge in things that don't negatively effect our character, example, water, running, exercise, kindness-things that don't have a negative affect on our "character" nature seems to reward us. So, how does random nature punish humans for things that negatively affect our "character" or spirituality. Granted, I know there are plenty of random acts that kill us, car accidents, disease, etc. But if we are fortunate enough to live a regular life span and make choices that are, I believe, universally considered morally good choices, we live longer and happier existences. That is, of course, if we don't get hit by a moving bus - I am just thinking out loud. The battle of conscience and nature: nature is random conscience makes choices nature has no control conscience has control nature has no reason conscience reasons conscience evolves conscience grows more efficiently nature does not collective conscience can spread nature is sporadic Wouldn't one admit conscience is more capable than nature? Yet we give way more credit to nature instead of accepting a more powerful conscience. Some think nature created conscience I believe conscience created nature. Reason would teach us that these attributes prove conscience more capable of creation rather than random nature. Yet scientists give so much credit to nature. Even to the point of attributing there own intelligence to random coincidence which makes it all a bit absurdly ironic. Consciousness evolves with many more capabilities than nature! We have control in an supposed uncontrollable world. Reality doesn't control us, We control reality. Our consciousness dictates how we decide things. How could this have happened in a random universe? How would nature create a mechanism, our minds, to allow organisms to have control over choice? Our conscious obviously were designed with purpose, to protect us, how would a purely random universe create this or better yet, why? Is the explanation, once again,that it just turned out that way? I understand the idea of evolving for survival, but we have evolved way past that and continue to do so. If there were only a few molecules on earth, with no intelligence, how did they fall together to create a brain that could have control in a place that was supposedly without control? This process makes absolutely no sense without intelligence. Some questions for science: I can buy into some form of evolution, but why did the first cell have a desire to replicate itself? Why would a bunch of primordial soup have a desire to survive? Why would it want to reproduce? Why are all animals, except humans, still hunter gatherers? Doesn't this go against the evolution theory? Why are we the only mammal that laughs or cries and how does science theorize the need for laughter? I don't think we need it to survive yet there it is a free pleasure. How come we are the only mammal that is finely tuned right in the middle of everything for use on this earth? What a crazy coincidence that our earth had all the materials on it to build the complex technology today. Even the remains of dinosaur helps us to drive cars. I've heard people say, well the reason we have so many amazing creations is because of man and our intelligence. But isn't that a bit like saying the reason orange juice is good is because of how man squeezes the oranges? Doesn't that sound absurd and ignorant? If evolutionists believe that we evolve to a more complex level, why don't they believe in a more complex intelligent being such as God? Especially if the universe has been around as long as it has. We have several systems that are irreducibly complex. All parts work together and accomplish one purpose. Like how a watch tells time as long as all gears, hands, and screws work together, each doing a different job to meet one purpose. We see this in our gravity, if we were tilted more, we would not be able to live. Our water system works because of our set atmosphere. The tides are set so that the moon's pull is just right. All together, providing conditions for life! I know there is a theory that we are just living in a lottery winning where things just so happen to be adjusted to sustain life. I would buy that if it were one irreducibly complex system. But life as we know it, down to the DNA in our bodies, and the complexity of our cells, is as if we have won many lotteries at once. The odds of winning one lottery are astronomical, but many at the same time? That should recon some serious questioning. Theory of evolution should logically support a God. If there is evolution, which scientists certainly don't dispute, where beings become more intelligent with time,scientists all agree with this, and the universe has existed for, well, billions of years to say the least, then wouldn't it be logical that a being more intelligent then us exists? It really almost seems silly that scientists proclaim evolution, yet dismiss the possibility of a higher being. I have never understood how they make this claim and call it logical. Scientifically, it seems if they except evolution, then they must at least accept the possibility of a higher being to support the process of evolution. Otherwise they are saying...evolution must only exist in what we experience-that seems contradictory since scientists make many claims about many evolutionary beings before humans existed. Science limiting our thinking: I understand that science can answer "how" things are created but not "why" This leads me to believe that in a sense, science is putting together the pieces but not seeing the purpose. Science is great at taking things apart and figuring out how they fit back together but that is often as worthy as it gets. Let me illustrate my point. Suppose there were a convention in the days before electricity and many scientists showed up. There, in the corner, is a light bulb, but no inventor around and because electricity hasn't been yet shown to the world, no one knows the purpose. The scientists gather around and begin doing their magic. Well, they say, this is how it works, the wires connect to the metal and the glass keeps it all together. A person in the audience says "Yeah, but what's it for?" and the scientists say, we aren't here to discuss philosophical questions, but we can tell you exactly how it is made up. And we can tell you where the materials came from. They then begin to hypothesis what the bulb could be used for. When the inventor doesn't show up, the scientists conclude that the bulb is an invention perhaps to use as a paper weight. Since no inventor is to be found, the audience, and then the society accept that as its purpose because that is as far as discovery can go since electricity hasn't been invented and no inventor is to be found, we then give full license and credit to the scientists. If the inventor isn't there at the time, then scientists can only provide theories as to how the creation is made and guess on its purpose. God has made himself known, but to those who don't see him as the creator, why the world works the way it does, and its purposes, are hypothesis and so some miss the purpose all together, like the example of the light bulb,the invention's purpose was to give light all along. My problem with strict Step ford science followers: I suppose one could chase its tail all day trying to prove one theory over another. I don't disagree with science,I just don't agree that in order for something to exist,it has to pass scientific criteria. I don't think the following statement is logical: Scientists have a set of criteria to decide if a theory is solid and is proven as a truth. If theories can't pass under this criteria-they can't be solid theory. There are things that can't be tested, things outside of our universe, things beneath the view of the microscope,so theories as to their existence can't be true. As ridiculous as this statement appears, as it is logically incorrect, this is what I hear atheists claim all the time. When a theory doesn't pass science standards, it must not be true. I find people ignorant when they claim science as the ultimate judge on what passes as truth or theory. It is like saying truth can only be measured or acceptable by our intellectual limits. It is one set of criteria. In western society, some have accepted science as the measure of all truth. I agree with many scientific theories, that is to go without saying, what I don't agree with is that all truth must be accepted by scientific criteria to exist. There are so many events that occur that science can't explain, that doesn't mean they don't exist!If truth can't exist outside of a scientific criteria based funnel, then science becomes an elitist club where others aren't allowed in if they don't agree to the club's criteria. I don't blame science for this, I think this is a narrow minded way to view science and our existence. Scientific criteria, created by man, becomes God, all knowing, when we view possibility -only-through its lens. And, after all, I think we can ALL agree to this statement, that man, to this day, has never been proven to be all-knowing, I don't think we need any evidence to see this as true, just look around our planet. Science will not limit or quantify my mind, until science can quantify the universe. Life seems full of free pleasures: Indeed, how lucky for us once again? fruit sex love color warmth to name a few, how would a random nature create this, Is it again coincidence? Did we simply evolve to appreciate these things? When I think of randomness, i usually equate it to chaos where everything runs together, a big blur. I usually don't associate it with organization and systems that end up omitting pleasure. So why do accept this explanation for our lives? Atheists contradict their belief in evolution. It is interesting how much my perspective has changed over the years of studying science and Christianity. I remember in my college days, before I started investigating science and origins of the universe, I would read Christian forums and think, Wow, they really do sound ignorant and naive. The last 20 years have been revealing. Now when I read atheist comments, I tend to feel the way I used to feel after reading Christian comments. Atheist logic is flawed. Atheism claims there is no possible God, yet organized energy is the reason we exist. If energy can collectively accomplish tasks, why not the possibility of God? Atheists claim to believe in evolution, yet deny the possibility of a higher power. So the buck stops here on our planet? Atheist logic is contradictory. I understand agnosticism, and was agnostic myself until after studying the historical and prophetical sides of the bible, in addition to studying the sciences. But when atheists use science to deny a creator, they are making claims without proof OR evidence. Atheists might say we don't have proof either,but we DO have evidence which is more than I can say for the atheist philosophy. If we can see, here on earth, evidence of energy organized in such a way to provide life, cycles, systems, efficiency, why would that not be possible in another form beyond us? If atheists believe in evolution, and consider the age of our universe, why wouldn't it be possible for something to be more intelligent and evolved? I don't think atheism has a solid leg to stand on. Atheist logic: Does this make mathematical sense? There is no God, we are just the result of randomly occurring circumstances. With The Hubble Spacecraft estimating 125 billion galaxies existing, the fact that life existing on earth is like winning the lottery many times simultaneously! It could happen! 1st, the planets are aligned so if they were off by a centimeter, gravity, water and our atmosphere would not work. This is a scientifically proven fact. ( Awesome jackpot!!!Lottery winning number one) 2nd, the gases from the volcanic activity were just right as to create a perfect atmosphere if only there were water. but....as luck would have it... 3rd, Because of the perfect random cooling temperature, water was made and our atmosphere came to be!! (Lottery winning 2 ) 4th, With all of these things working together,a living cell developed and started replicating itself for no known reason.(lottery winning 3) Kind of like watch pieces suddenly flying together to create a watch. (Hey, it could happen, right?) All these things had to work together to create life, (see irreducibly complex definition) not just one lottery winning but many and at the same time. 5th, Cells developed and had DNA, which is a chain of information longer than thousands of books, that happened to fall together along with all these other coincidences!! Lucky us! A novel larger than than an encyclopedia with a bunch of loose words and could fall together in a wind storm. The odds of this happening are greater than DNA falling together according to scientists but it could happen, we were just very lucky!!! (lottery winning 4) 6th, When these cells began moving about, it just so happens there was vegetation was available on this planet, to sustain its life, not just allowing it to occur, but now sustaining it too!!!!! (lottery winning 5) 7th, This vegetation not only sustains life it thankfully comes in many delicious flavors such as orange, watermelon, grape etc.!!!!(Now that is a cool random occurrence since the law of entropy says universal occurrences result in decay and chaos, not organized patterns of satisfaction. (lottery winning 6) 8th, Man evolves and has this brain that has developed making him capable of improving the world with all these materials that are already here on planet earth!!!! Cool, there is random lumber, fire, water, tar, lightning, just the right materials coincidentally to sustain the population that is starting to arise. And not just sustain it for a few people but exponentially and for a very long time!!!!!!! It seems like this planet was planned and developed to sustain life! But... nah... It is probably just man's brilliance, figuring out how to use these resources that makes all of this incredible. After all, when you make a glass of orange juice in the morning, it is the way you squeeze the oranges that really makes it special, right? (lottery winning 7) 9th, man is suddenly able to experience a strange random chemical reaction that creates emotion. This emotion just popped up as an added random bonus like the other pleasures in life, flavor, creativity, laughter, love. The planet happened to have randomly placed pleasure here, (which again goes against the scientific law of entropy where systems don't occur naturally)(lottery winning 8) 10th) As man begins to populate, we discover more and more that the earth is like a suitcase unveiling more resources to provide man with the ability to survive! Medicine from plants, metal for buildings and cars, and even dinosaur bones happen to randomly create oil which allows for more humans to live and prosper even more exponentially! (Wow, dinosaur bones allow us to drive cars)now that is a crazy big lottery winning, what a cool coincidence!!!!!! I mean a suitcase could pack itself, right!? hence number 9) (((side note))) A man named Jesus Christ is born, caused a bunch of people to follow him, saying things that are completely unselfish with no control motive whatsoever. 12 people decided to create a book about him (on crude paper and slow ink and thousands of pages) these people must have been crazy geniuses to write a book that has stood the test of time. I wonder why they wrote it with absolutely nothing to gain? Seems strange they were so set on how important honesty is, yet lying through their teeth? Oh yeah, most of these writers were also crucified for standing up for this supposed mythological being. Strange how much time they spent writing this book and were willing to even die for this person. They must've been crazy, yet brilliant enough to corroborate on all details to the point where even today’s lawyers, going over it with a fine toothed comb, are unable to disprove it. (((side note two, this crazy book predicted the demise of Rome, during a time when Rome ruled the world, Jewish people having their land taken, Jewish people then getting their land back (happened in 1945) and God's return only when all four corners of the earth being informed) Those crazy authors must've also had mental telepathy (hey, it could happen!) 11th) These resources we use to help us survive, they actually "replenish" themselves to continue to allow the world to populate even more!!! I love luck!!! (lottery winning number 10) 12th) It is also really fortunate that human-beings are the creatures that have the greatest brain power and that we fit right perfectly in the middle of earths' happenings. Not too big like the elephants of the world and not too small like the insects in the world. We also have the perfect volume and distance for hearing and seeing, not too loud to overwhelm us. And our sight is set to appreciate the earth, but not to a microscopic overwhelming magnitude. According to evolution, shouldn't animals be evolving to talk and problem solve too? Oh well, I guess just another fortunate plus for us humans!!(lottery winning number 11) (side bar)It is strange that we are constantly put in situations that teach us lessons, including how to objectively become better people. How coincidental that nature rewards and punishes us for moral decisions. Consider the following human conditions and how the universe randomly reacts: greed, alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction, selfishness, gluttony. It does seem strange that the universe, with no intelligence or forethought, punishes these behaviors. Again, probably just a random occurrence, nothing more. Is it possible that a being more intelligent and enlightened than us, is a perfect being and wants us to become the best possible selves also? He wants to experience a relationship with us, as his children, but wants us to choose him and not through force or lack of options? Naaa, it is probably more likely that the universe spun all this into action one lottery winning after another. Prayer to luck from an atheist, Dear Lottery winnings, I am clearly a more rational being to believe in you instead of an intelligent being existing in this vast universe in which I have only seen the equivalency of a grain of sand. I am sure I, (a human being), am the most intelligent being in this universe even though I believe in evolution and exist on a planet that has evolved only a small amount of time compared to the rest of the universe. I will forever believe in you, randomness, and fight for your existence!!! Just because this planet, appears, to be designed for life to exist for a long prosperous time, I am sure it is just luck. I, as a proud atheist, I only believe in things that CAN BE PROVEN! Therefore, flying, electricity, and computers never existed until scientists said so, they must not have been possible until scientists said so! Please ignore that this contradicts what I am about to say. Randomness, I even have faith in you, after all I can't prove you mathematically as all these coincidences defy mathematical odds, but believe in you anyway! Believing is the only way to faith-not knowing. Faith is important because we rely on our character and spirit to make decisions rather than the outcome of our choices. This is the only way to get to know and determine your own soul. It is the closest we can come to who we truthfully are. If we don't take a leap of faith we would never have an opportunity to TRUST God, if we knew for certain "There is a God" we would be making a choice based on consequence. Butterfly effect. The world does seem to have occurrences every millisecond that affect the outcome of every millisecond that follows, in fact exponentially because if one moment causes change in many directions( which it would as change is not linear but rather explodes in all directions) than all those seconds would birth changes outwardly upon thousands of other seconds and cyclically continue. So we are living in a constant molecular mind field of change. In a universe of mathematical logic, this is not possible as it describes chaos. God is the logical and mathematical explanation. He is the underlying symphony director, effortless as time is not a factor for Him, He just is. I think somewhere inside of us all, we realize this to be true. Explanation of eternity (God) from a physics perspective. Just looking at time scientifically. If there is a place, or continuum, where time doesn't exist( for example, a black hole) then death wouldn't either because something happened regardless of earlier, later, it still happened, therefore it is. There is such a place that exists if our universe is a vacuum. Death seems separate because time is a reality here, moments move slow enough to create time. But in the universe, there is no death, because the life energy is still the same, it is still out there, just not in our time frame, but it still exists. I looked at Grandma's photo, there is a concrete example of her just as her body was, the only difference was the time frame she lived in. She is still here visually, everything she has ever done, still exists, it didn't undo itself, it is just the time frame is past now. If the universe is a vacuum, vortex, and you get to the bottom of it, where time spins so fast amongst itself, time would stand still,every moment, past present, and future would be one. Every answer would be answered for all time would be together, including future. This is where energy is concentrated, this is where it all goes. This is the very small of the energy vortex our Galaxy is made of, this is where perhaps God is, and where time meets itself,all knowing wisdom, eternity? It reminds me of a hand spinning a rope with a ball attached, time is much faster at the beginning of the spin,or rope, as it goes further, the ball takes longer to make one rotation but the energy source is the same. The hand, or energy source, the power that creates that spin, at the core of it, this is where time stands still. Possibly God? Time is relative. "Believing is what leads one to faith...not knowledge of the certain. It requires us to make choices based on wisdom rather than desired outcomes. It is the closest we come to knowing the selfs we are capable of becoming." Life is organized by a mind. If a student walked into a classroom and sat down at a desk, could a test create itself? Could a tornado hit the room and suddenly create a test on the desk? Our logic tells us no. Yet,that is what the atheist philosophy teaches. From the moment we are born until the day we die, the world is like a giant multiple choice test. Did we create these circumstances or were they here before man? The circumstances that lead us to make logical decisions were all here before we were. The circumstances were presented to us and we responded, not the other way around. How could a giant test with definite right and wrong answers randomly occur? It must have had a creator to organize it, decide what was right and wrong, before hand. Logic, right and wrong decisions, were put into motion long before human beings were. Unless you believe a test could create itself, there is no other alternative then reasoning its origins were from a creator. Just some questions for science I can buy into some form of evolution, but why did the first cell have a desire to replicate itself? Why would a bunch of primordial soup have a desire to survive? Why would it want to reproduce? Why are all animals, except humans, still hunter gatherers? Doesn't this go against the evolution theory? Why are we the only mammal that laughs or cries and how does science theorize the need for laughter? How come we are the only mammal that is finely tuned right in the middle of everything for use on this earth? What a crazy coincidence that our earth had all the materials on it to build the complex technology today. Even the remains of dinosaur helps us to drive cars. If evolutionists believe that we evolve to a more complex level, why don't they believe in a more complex intelligent being such as God? Especially if the universe has been around as long as it has. We have several systems that are irreducibly complex. All parts work together and accomplish one purpose. Like how a watch tells time as long as all gears, hands, and screws work together. We see this in our gravity, if we were tilted more, we would not be able to live. Our water system works because of our set atmosphere. The tides are set so that the moon's pull is just right. I know there is a theory that we are just living in a lottery winning where things just so happen to be adjusted to sustain life. I would buy that if it were one irreducibly complex system. But life as we know it, down to the dna in our bodies, and the complexity of our cells, is as if we have won many lotteries at once. The odds of winning one lottery are astronomical, but many at the same time, that should recon some serious questioning. I understand that science can answer "how" things are created but not "why" This leads me to believe that in a sense, science is putting together the pieces but not seeing the purpose. Science is great at taking things apart and figuring out how they fit back together but that is often as worthy as it gets. Let me illustrate my point. Suppose there were a convention in the days before electricity and many scientists showed up. There, in the corner, is a light bulb, but no inventor around and because electricity hasn't been yet shown to the world, no one knows the purpose. The scientists gather around and begin doing their magic. Well, they say, this is how it works, the wires connect to the metal and the glass keeps it all together. A person in the audience says "Yeah, but what's it for?" and the scientists say, we aren't here to discuss philosophical questions, but we can tell you exactly how it is made up. And we can tell you where the materials came from. They then begin to hypothesis what the bulb could be used for. When the inventor doesn't show up, the scientists conclude that the bulb is an invention perhaps to use as a paper weight. Since no inventor is to be found, the audience, and then the society accept that as its purpose because that is as far as discovery can go since electricity hasn't been invented and no inventor is to be found. If the inventor isn't there, then scientists can only provide theories as to how the creation is made and guess on its purpose. God has made himself known but to those who don't see him as the creator, why the world works and its purposes are hypothesis and so some miss the purpose all together. The invention was there to give light all along. Science as the overseer of truth. I suppose one could chase its tail all day trying to prove one theory over another. I don't disagree with science,I just don't agree that in order for something to exist,it has to pass scientific criteria. I don't think the following statement is logical: Scientists have a set of criteria to decide if a theory is solid and is proven as a truth. If theories can't pass under this criteria-they can't be solid theory. There are things that can't be tested, things outside of our universe, things beneath the view of the microscope,so theories as to their existence can't be true. As ridiculous as this statement appears, as it is logically incorrect, this is what I hear atheists claim all the time. When a theory doesn't pass science standards, it must not be true. I find people ignorant when they claim science as the ultimate judge on what passes as truth or theory. It is one set of criteria. In western society, some have accepted science as the measure of all truth. I agree with many scientific theories, that is to go without saying, what I don't agree with is that all truth must be accepted by scientific criteria. There are so many events that occur that science can't explain, that doesn't mean they don't exist!If truth can't exist outside of a scientific criteria based funnel, then science becomes an elitist club where others aren't allowed in if they don't agree to the club's criteria. I don't blame science for this, I think this is a narrow minded way to view science and our existence. Scientific criteria, created by man, becomes God, all knowing, when we view possibility -only-through its lens. And, after all, I think we can ALL agree to this statement, that man, to this day, has never been proven to be all-knowing, I don't think we need any evidence to see this as true . Mother Nature and punishment? Drinking or drugs.............natural consequence=death, insanity, broken homes. premarital sex.................sexual disease, broken homes, single parents greed................war, corruption,depression. homosexuality..............aids gluttony...................obesity, high blood pressure Seems uncanny that these things occur? When we love............we are fulfilled When we give............we are fulfilled If there weren't a god, wouldn't it make sense that we could all be, drug addicted, alcoholic, sex crazed, over eating, happy human beings? How can the world, if random, give us natural consequences to our sins? Pretty uncanny. Universal truths given our intellectual evolution: Hurting people with words is cruel if for no reason. inflicting pain on others for no reason is cruel. Destroying groups for any reason other than self defense or safety is cruel. Destroying others for any reason other than self defense or safety is cruel. One should not steal from others. fairness and justice are good. rewards should be given for hard work. consequences should be given for laws broken set by the majority. why are there these universal truths, where did they come from? we know them to be true,we can't deny them but how did they evolve in a world that exists only for survival purposes and where there is no greater good? I can't deny them can you? How do they exist, by whose declaration are they true? Yet they are. The Bible is intertwined with facts that take place all over the book, without computers, how would people be able to align and displace facts without contradictions. The bible is intertwined with so many details that show up in other places, it would take genius to make sure all i's were dotted and t's were crossed! Not to mention, if it were written merely out of political persuasion, as some skeptics claim, where is the bias? There is no bias or ulterior motive whatsoever! In fact, it is purely unselfish! To be this intelligent, and generous, and yet be full of untruths, just doesn't add up. I think if people really study the word they will discover it for themselves. It is those people who make assumptions without actually studying for themselves, who are led to believe the skepticism out there. That is why I just ask people if they really are "open minded", to make sure they truly study both sides before drawing any conclusions. The deeper I look, the deeper my faith becomes. My faith became much stronger once I began studying science, philosophy, and even many atheist websites. Before I studied these areas, and during college, I was afraid to read atheist materials. I was afraid what was said might be true, but I knew that even if it changed my faith, it was truth I was after, no matter the outcome. I was agnostic during this time. I studied, and continue to do so, and it has only reaffirmed my faith. Science has led me to see the amazing systems of our universe and how there is purpose through it's assembly. The cycles, our bodies, the resources on earth, morals, consequences, all work together for the purpose of human life and the opportunity to develop character and to make our own choices. An intelligence is the only reasonable explanation to such intricacy. Chaos is the result of randomness. Evolution, natural selection, are only two of many processes that point to a world with many processes that must work together in unity to provide life, yet often these are the only two that atheists use to make a case. The more I study, and seek knowledge, combined with prayer for understanding, the more I have gratitude for the faith God has in us to give us intelligence to discover all of it. Christians don't need to cower in fear or ignorance. I am so grateful that God would never ask us to turn a blind eye or to ignore our need to question. I do think that in order to come to a strong faith, you should study with tenacious fervor. I believe most atheists who do the same will discover God. It is the Christians and atheists who don't question or study who I believe remain stagnant. I no longer view Christianity as blind faith. I wouldn't have arrived at this understanding had I not taken the chance to find truth despite my fear, and now that I have, I have arrived at my beliefs without bias or sway from current trends, and trust God as he has allowed me keep both eyes wide open. My struggle understanding Hell. I understand the struggle with hell. It does seem confusing that we would spend an eternity there. However, if God created us to feel love, his love, than I believe he simply takes it away when we refuse to accept him. It is like if we don't accept God, why should be leave a part of himself with us when we die? If we don't want him, why would he force us to accept his love? I am not sure what hell is but I can say that it most definitely is not having God, and this would mean taking love and joy out of the equation by our own choice. That seems pretty fair to me. I can't think of another way God could offer us free will and a chance to choose for ourselves? Can you come up with a better plan? Let's agree for a moment there is a God. This is a God who wants his creation to be able to develop a sense of self, a sense of accomplishment, a sense of growth based purely on choice. Ok, now, try as I may, i have never been able to come up with a plan better than the one God has created. For example, Why doesn't God just show himself? If God showed himself, we wouldn't experience hope or faith on our own. Hope and faith are two things, whether Christian or atheist, one needs to experience to grow. After all, if we know every outcome, we never learn lessons. Why should we bother, it would be much easier to let God to everything for us. So onto my next thought, well, why does God allow pain? Again, if God saved people from falling off cliffs, hypothetically speaking, we again would "know" undoubtedly, that there is a power to always care for us. So my next question, What is the purpose of all of this? I believe God wants us to have a relationship with us, that is why he created us, but wants us to desire a relationship with him. If we give a little leap of faith, he begins to reveal himself and sense and purpose to existence. So, I guess my challenge is for someone to come up with a better plan than this that would still allow us to both develop our own character AND know him both at the same time. Many intellectual lenses. We are equipped with many intellectual skills as humans. We have many skills to allow us to think through many lenses. We can see life through many perspectives: philosophical perspective(trying to answer why), a mathematical perspective(seeing numerical truths),scientific perspective (proof) logical or reasoning perspective (putting it all together and being able to discern, and experience (subjective truths) Philosophically, I see God as the only explanation with why we would have all these skills that differ from animals,and a whole other slew of reasons which I've already bored many with on this site. Mathematically, I know we live in a solar system that defied the odds of living on a planet that sustains life, we have yet to find another. Through experience, I have read a bible that seems to hold universal truths,has never been dis proven, has prophesy, and would seem absurd that someone would have been bored and yet sensible enough to write a book that has stood the test of time.I have had uncanny experience with prayer as well. Science perspective (proof) is the one perspective that doesn't fully, and I mean 100%, because I do see proof, but not 100% support God which is why it is not scientific in nature. So then I pull out my reasoning and logic lens and can only deduce that all of these point to a God EXCEPT the science perspective. If i were to put them on a scale, all the others would far outweigh that of science. Why would I put my ability to prove at a higher value than all the other skills I have as a human? Is that logical, is that reasonable? Experience of God There is the difference btw. trying to prove there is a God without him and trying to understand God with him, even if it is with the faith of a mustard seed. I had the so many questions for years. I then noticed there was a real "possibility" there might be a God. With that, I asked for his "help" and that is what is transforming. That is why you won't find a magic equation to answer your questions because it is the facts "plus"a relationship with God that is affirming. My relationship with God has answered the questions you have. I can't put into words exactly how. It's like having a relationship with a parent, when someone asks you if you trust them and why, and you say "I just do" to explain why would involve many moments and experiences. That is how it is with God. You don't have to be 100% sure. God doesn't leave us on our own to figure this all out. It only takes faith the size of a mustard seed. The earth was a full suitcase to help man survive. The materials, since the first day the planet was formed, have been here to sustain life today. With the population we have in our world today, cars,computers,machinery are all necessary for this many people to survive. How is it a planet was randomly placed in this universe with the materials necessary to build the technology we must have to survive today. Think about it, when we go on vacation, we have to plan the materials necessary for us to survive comfortably. This planet seems to be a packed suitcase for us humans to have a very long experience. I don't think it is possible for a random occurrence to pack the earth enough supplies for us to live AND continue to create amazing technology from the same original suitcase. I don't think this could be yet another random coincidence. Many non Christians give credit to man for the technology we have on earth. I go back to my original analogy for people who say "it is humans that deserve the credit since we made the stuff." Again I say it is rather like making orange juice and claiming it turned out good because of the way we squeezed the oranges. Seems a bit ignorant doesn't it?? Atheist contradiction with God and evolution. If there is evolution, which scientists certainly don't dispute, where beings become more intelligent with time,scientists all agree with this, and the universe has existed for, well, billions of years to say the least according to scientists, then wouldn't it be logical that a being more intelligent then us exists? It really almost seems silly that scientists proclaim evolution, yet dismiss the possibility of a higher being. I have never understood how they make this claim and call it logical. Scientifically, it seems if they except evolution, then they must at least accept the possibility of a higher being to support the process of evolution. Otherwise they are saying...evolution must only exist in what we experience-that seems contradictory since scientists make many claims about many evolutionary beings before humans existed. We should, according to evolution, see other forms of life. The fact that we don't ,causes me to reason, along with the other "coincidences" I have mentioned, is because God didn't create the universe for all else, rather he made it for the human condition, like the bible implies, and that is why we don't see other evolved forms. I also am making the case that because of the mathematical organization and irreducibly complex systems here on earth, there seems to be an intelligent designer who is more "evolved" if you will, to create it all. I think we see things only from a human perspective. Something existing at a higher level of consciousness, and outside of what is tangible to humans, seems as a more probable explanation than that of a random accident. In addition to this, the bible and the prophesy that has come true, and continues to come true, only further makes the explanation of God more reasonable than chance. I am saying is if you are an evolutionist who claims not to believe in God, how can you believe in the possibility of life outside of our solar system. It seems to me that is believing in something that exists outside of our solar system, which we have no idea how that would look or act, is just as plausible as believing in God. I mean if evolution exists than why not a higher conscience being evolving. I am saying that evolutionists imply mixed messages. I don't need to know whether there is life on other planets to decide whether there is a God or not, because there is enough evidence besides that which is suffice. If there is not life on other planets, well than I am also convinced. I believe either way. More than the Big Bang... Human existence, scientifically, would have to be explained by three SEPARATE chance occurrences. One the planet was aligned at just the right angle to allow for life to BEGIN. Secondly, our planet gained the systems(oxygen, photosynthesis,etc.) to SURVIVE. Third, our planet contained the resources(oil, metal, electricity) to FLOURISH. This is not one fortunate accident (the big bang) that carried us to our current state of existence. How the planet is aligned has nothing to do with the resources inside the planet. Yes we do what we can with the resources available, I've heard atheists say time and time again, but we almost couldn't have much more in terms of comfort. Did we randomly receive all these comforts? Please don't tell me you are going to chalk this up to human intelligence, and if you are, create some soil with your own ingredients first. Evolution somewhere in this universe, or outside of it, could easily be considered possible according to evolutionary standards. When people say a God couldn’t have evolved in a universe he created they are assuming parameters in uncharted territory. We don't know what is out side of our universe, in fact to say outside is absurd since it assumes shape. Again, to say it can't happen is speaking about something we can't understand. In other words, we don't know what is outside the limits of our telescope so to put limitations on that to me is presumptuous. There is logic in believing in a God. I am not trying to do it from my own personal biblical point of view, I am trying to explain that in my opinion, other views that try and disprove God seem to have so many contradictions. Some believe that what is true for our earth, must be true for the universe. God is not bound by the same laws that govern out planet. The ego of an Atheist This is what cracks me up about atheists. The fact that you credit man for building amazing technology with material we didn't create! I don't see how a random universe could give us materials, except perhaps goo, that would enable us to use our minds, I guess another coincidence, and we can put them together and create the amazing things we have today! In fact, I don't think we would be around if we didn't have the technology today. Again, proof to an intelligence that thought ahead when planning our suitcase if you will, to survive this long. I just can't, with reasoning, view this as just another, really cool, fortunate, coincidence. Now, show me another planet with crazy unidentifiable technology and beings with advancements that match and utilize their resources, and I will rethink my position. Why God's plan is perfect. If we had proof of God, we wouldn't have faith if we had proof of God, we wouldn't have our own personality or integrity. If we had proof of God, we wouldn't have free will Yet, he gives us a promise and if we humble ourselves and try a little belief we experience much that is supernatural and then validating the rest. There really couldn't be a more perfect balanced method for a creator to give it's creation both personality and everlasting life. if you can think of one I'd sure love to hear it. Can God intervene? Sure, he created us and has the power to do whatever he wants. But, look at it from a parenting perspective- God is not a parent who will jump in and make our decisions for us or save us from all mistakes we make- or the bullys of the world. What good parent would? I think you would agree that any good parent, after teaching right from wrong, would allow his children to go out in the world, make choices, and learn from consequences. A good parent would not go out and fight our battles for us. A good parent might intervene when he chooses, but not when we choose, that would simply breed spoiled children that pay little attention to their choices or consequences(if parents always intervened, there would be no consequences to learn from.) A good parent would also invite his children home regardless of the mistakes, if that is, the child has learned from his mistakes and shows respect to the parents home. But if that child seems to denounce his parent and causes harm to his brother and sisters still, never willing to learn from his mistakes, and still wants to come home? I would call that parent a fool and would worry for the other children and the would consider that parent lacking in any knowledge of justice. From a philosophical perspective on good parenting, I'd say he is doing exactly what he should.